INTERVIEW: Director Ruben Östlund on His Fascinating Foreign Language Nominated Film 'The Square'

As Oscar voters begin turning in their ballots for the 90th Academy Awards show, I had the pleasure of speaking with foreign language film nominee, Ruben Östlund, whose movie "The Square" also won the coveted Palme d'Or honor at last year's Cannes Film Festival. Enjoy learning more about this Oscar frontrunner in the "Best Foreign Language Film" category below.

AwardsCircuit: What brought you to something so seemingly impenetrable like the art world? Talk to me about the transition from "Force Majeure" to "The Square"?

Ruben Östlund: Well...me and a friend of mine come up with this art installation idea for “The Square.” That was something that we started talking about in 2011 when I was doing a movie called “Play” about young boys robbing other young boys in a city where I lived in. It was inspired by true events. When I read through the , it was so obvious that the bystander effect was super strong, that even if these robberies took place in a mall where there was a lot of adults surrounding kids, no one inspected. We came up with an idea of trying to create a symbolic place where we are reminded of our role as fellow human beings and that we can actually take responsibility for each other in public spaces. was almost like a traffic sign, something that should remind us of a different behavior, a different kind of social contract.

Then I had this idea for a couple of years. When “Force Majeure” was finished, I thought I could transform “The Square” into a peer-to-peer project. At the same time, were invited to an art museum in Sweden to make an exhibition. We said, “Let's make an exhibition about 'The Square.' Let's continue to play into the contemporary art field.” That became like a research period for “The Square” to happen at the same time as we did that exhibition.

AwardsCircuit: Okay, so the museum was already there in place. You guys used that museum to shoot the film?

Ruben Östlund: We didn't shoot the museum in the same place. We built up everything in the studio. After the exhibition happened, they three “Squares” -- two in Sweden and one in Norway that are permanently in three different cities. All these were happening at the same time I was writing the script. When we started to shoot the film, existed already in one city in Sweden. It was going parallel with the work on the feature. When we started to shoot the film, the exhibition was over a long time ago so we redid parts of it in the studio, etc.

AwardsCircuit: In Cannes, you must have felt understood obviously because the community is made up of artists who appreciate the eccentric and esoteric nature of art. Were you at all nervous presenting the film to a more commercial international audience given the expectation of winning the Palme d'Or? Furthermore, do you feel "The Square" is accessible to the masses?

Ruben Östlund: I think that the theme of the film is something very universal. It's about the humanistic belief in how we try to be fair with each other and try and create an equal society. I think that is definitely universal. The way I wanted to do is that even if I thought it was , I wanted to make it entertaining at the same time I was dealing with an important topic. I think with that approach, it's possible to travel, to make the film travel to reach a wider audience.

AwardsCircuit: Tell me about the search for an actor who could play a perfect egocentric curator. Claes Bang is a revelation in the film -- was it your intent to cast someone who felt like they authentically belonged in this almost obnoxiously cultured world?

Ruben Östlund: Well I tried out real curators for the part. I was also trying out actors, both French and American actors. It felt Claes was doing it...he's a very sensitive guy, Claes in person, and I liked that. He put a lot of emotion into this conception I .



AwardsCircuit: What was the reasoning behind creating these American characters played by Elizabeth Moss and Dominic West? We rarely see recognizable American stars in foreign language movies. It almost bridges the gap between two separate worlds of cinema.

Ruben Östlund: Well, I was a little scared of because it was hard to merge these two worlds. However, when I was doing casting, Elizabeth Moss, Dominic West and Terry Notary...I felt that they were such good actors. They were so intelligent and skillful. It was a problem for me because I , “Maybe I should go for European or Scandinavian actors.” But then I realized, “No, the art world is an international center." We can accept that people speak different languages. That whole experience made me think it's possible to combine the best parts of .

AwardsCircuit: A common theme in this film is how antiquated the art world feels in contemporary times. The marketing team is almost grasping at straws in order to find relevance with the world of today. Do you feel like museums and the art scene in general has a definitive place in our modern landscape?

Ruben Östlund: I think there's a lot of different parts of the art world. Of course there's a lot of art that is fantastic and very interesting. But there is also a lot of the art world that is about creating interior design for rich people's houses. You are dealing with collecting items and it's about economy. The art world has all these different spectrums that cinema would have also, but since I'm dealing with satire...I hope that the art world doesn't take too personally. Of course I love the art world but the art world needs to be criticized in the same way that cinema needs to be criticized.

AwardsCircuit: The protagonist, Christian, often comes across as self-serving in his need to fulfill some kind of moral or righteous obligation due to his professional position. Was it your intent to create a character so self-aggrandizing in his altruism and eminence that he neglects the ones most important in his life, like his daughters?

Ruben Östlund: For me Christian is just a human being. I think that's all of us dealing with this kind of conflict. At least all of us are middle class or upper middle class and have a certain kind of prestigious position, that we want to do good, know what it is to do good, and at the same time aware of that we are in a privileged position. Isn't that the struggle that we have on an individual basis? I think that makes it kind of interesting in that Christian is a complex character, because for me that's just how life is.

AwardsCircuit: Easily the most shocking sequence of the film is the performance art show that Oleg puts on in that massive reception hall. Describe to me the purpose of that scene. It was meant to clearly disturb and disrupt both the onscreen and offscreen audience. Was it your way of shattering the wall separating spectacle with observer?

Ruben Östlund: I can tell you from the beginning that idea was that I had an aim for “The Square” that it should participate in competition in . I was really proud of the idea that the film would be shown at the Lumiére , where you have a tuxedo-dressed audience looking at another tuxedo-dressed audience at a dinner party trying to figure out these performance artists.

I don't know if you remember the voiceover at the beginning, but the voiceover says, “Soon you will be hunted by wild animals.” As we all know the hunting instinct is triggered by weakness. If we are sitting completely hidden and hide in the herd with the knowledge that someone else will be the prey, the forum is there to highlight the bystander effect, the reason why we get paralyzed when something scary is happening. It's not because we are egotistic or that we don't care about other people, it's just that we get scared, and when we get scared when we are in the herd , “Oh, don't take me; don't take me!”

AwardsCircuit: The artist of “The Square” exhibition is mentioned numerous times, but we never actually see her. Is this a way of commentating how the artist now remains invisible in the art world while their work is hijacked by museums to sell themselves rather than the creator's true vision?

Ruben Östlund: No, that was actually that happened during the process of the script-writing and also during casting. I cast an Argentinian artist whose name is Lola Arias. In the beginning I thought it would be great that she is in the film, but then I thought it was more interesting if Christian, the main character, is presenting the main concept of “The Square,” and you can tell that he believes in it. Then he is challenged in his morals and ethics, in his individual life and personal life. That was more the reason than to exclude.

AwardsCircuit: Following up with that, “The Square” satirically suggests that there's this hypocrisy that exists within the art world. The X-Royal Museum for instance promotes a zone of creative freedom and expressiveness, yet by the end of the film there's clearly limitations to that. Moreover, the main exhibit's intent to socially unify through shocking violence ends up being more exploitative than empowering. Do you feel that the art world is just another domain of self-interested parties or does it still have humanitarian value?

Ruben Ostlund: I think the art world has strong humanitarian value, but I also think the art world is just like any other business in this capitalistic economy system that between being a successful economical institution and which part it should focus on , the struggle in-between those things. I don't think this is specific to the art world; I think it's for any institution in this capitalistic economy.

AwardsCircuit: Right! In order to keep the institution running, the museums have to sellout a little bit to make sure the revenue is still coming. It's almost like you have to make a deal with the devil in order to keep surviving.

Ruben Östlund: Exactly! That is also something I wanted to point out with the PR agency that is promoting “The Square” . In order to get attention to humanistic values, what do we need to do today in this kind of media landscape?

AwardsCircuit: Are there any new genres or topics or themes you'd like to explore in future films that would once again challenge your audience?

Ruben Östlund: Definitely. I'm going to look at beauty as of value. My wife, she's a fashion photographer and she's been telling me so many interesting stories about the fashion industry and beauty industry. The next is going to be called “Triangle of Sadness.” “Triangle of Sadness” is when you have this wrinkle in-between your eyebrows when you have had a lot of trouble in your life, and that is actually a term when it comes to plastic surgery. When you have a “triangle of sadness,” you don't have to be worried because we can fix that in fifteen minutes with Botox. This is the next industry I will have a satirical approach with, the modeling industry and beauty industry.

"The Square" is currently available for rent and purchase on multiple streaming platforms, including iTunes and Amazon. Be sure to check out Sweden's foreign language nominee!

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